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Go 围棋 The game to beat all games 游戏之王 The most intellectually testing game ever devised? 有史以来设计出最考验智慧的游戏？【@我是烟囱哥 @悠悠万事97 】 Dec 16th 2004 | from the print edition  Too difficult for computers 难倒电脑【@悠悠万事97 】 THE heavyweight pros on late-night cable television boast nicknames such as Monster, Razor, Butcher, Assassin and Knitting Needle. The most famed matches in history include the Blood Vomiting Game of 1835, the Famous Killing Game of 1926 and the Atomic Bomb Game of 1945. No, this is not some bone-crushing contact sport. It is a simple parlour game where two opponents, comfortably seated and often equipped with nothing more than folding paper fans and cigarettes, take turns placing little stones, some black, some white, on a flat wooden grid. Simple regarding rules and gear, that is, yet so challenging that in this mind-game, unlike chess, and despite the long-standing offer of a $1.6m reward for a winning program, no computer has yet been able to outwit a clever ten-year-old. 出现在午夜有线电视（围棋节目）中的职业高手都有显赫的绰号，如妖怪、剃刀、刺客和织针等。 【@悠悠万事97 】【@Blacklights 】 Monster 不知道是说谁 历史上最著名的比赛包括1835年的“因彻吐血局 ”（赤星因彻 VS. 丈和 ）、1926年的“世纪杀棋之名局 ” ( 本因坊秀哉 VS. 雁金准一 )以及1945年的“原爆下对局 ” (岩本薰 VS. 桥本 )。不不不，这不是什么会伤筋动骨的肢体接触运动，这只是在客厅就能进行的简单游戏，双方甚至不需要纸扇香烟之外的其他东西,只需要舒舒服服的坐着,轮流把或黑或白的小石子放到平整的木格子上。这一智力游戏虽然规则和工具都不复杂，却仍然充满挑战性。与象棋不同，尽管早就有人悬赏，如果有谁能够编出能够打败（职业棋手）的计算机程序，就能获得160万美元的奖金， 仍然没有一台计算机能够在围棋上胜过一个聪明的十岁小孩。 The game known in English as go—Igo in Japanese, Weiqi in Chinese, Baduk in Korean—is not just more difficult and subtle than chess. It may also be the world''''''''s oldest surviving game of pure mental skill. Devised in China at least 2,500 years ago, it had stirred enough interest by the time of the Han dynasty (206BC-220AD) to inspire poets, philosophers and strategic theorists. One of these strategists, Huan Tan (who died in 56AD), advises in his work “Xin Lun”, or “New Treatise”, that the best approach in the game is to “spread your pieces widely so as to encircle the opponent.” Second best is to attack and choke off enemy formations. The worst strategy is to cling to a defence of your own territory—a warning that would have benefited, say, the designers of France''''''''s 1930s Maginot line. 这个游戏的名称英文叫Go，日文叫Igo，中文叫围棋，韩文叫Baduk。 它不仅比象棋更复杂、更玄妙，还有可能是世界上现存最古老【@悠悠万事97 】的纯智力游戏——至少2500年前，围棋就已于中国诞生。到了汉代（公元前268年-公元220年），它已经激起了包括诗人、哲学家、战略思想家在内的许许多多人的兴趣。其中名叫桓谭（逝世于公元56年）的战略家在他的《新论》中指出：高手下棋都是“远远落子以便围住对方的棋子”。次一点水平的棋手只会贴身扭杀和吃对方的棋子。而初学者只是一味守住自己的地盘。 上者，远其疏张，置以会围；中者，则务相绝遮要，以争便求利；下者，则守边隅。 要是上世纪30年代法国马奇诺防线的设计者们能悟到这个道理就好了。 【@悠悠万事97 @我是烟囱哥 】 Don''''''''t expect to stop 日本围棋独大 这篇文章的前一部分是说围棋生于中国，但成长于日本，日本围棋领先于世界数百年，这种局面似乎永远也不会出现改变。 @dqzxf Go also had a place in Han-era folklore, in the form of the oft-illustrated story of the woodcutter, Wang Zhi. Wandering in a forest, he is said to have happened upon two sages playing a game. Wang settled down to watch, and became so absorbed that when at last one of the players suggested he should go home, he found that the handle of his axe had rotted entirely away. Returning to his village and recognising no one, Wang realised he had been gone for a hundred years. A small exaggeration, perhaps, yet the tale says much about the enduring fascination of a game that begins with an empty board and slowly evolves into ever-increasing complexity. 围棋在汉代的民间传说中也占有一席之地，比如经常被引用的樵夫王质的故事。王质入山伐木，偶遇两位长相不凡的老者在对弈。王质坐下来观棋。他一心观赏棋局，全然忘了过了多长时间。当一位老人提醒他应该回家了时，他这才发现他伐木斧头的斧柄已经全都烂没了。他回到自己所住的村庄后，发现村里的人都不认识了。王质这才明白自己已经离开村子一百年了。 “《述异记》烂柯人 信安郡石室山，晋时王质伐木至，见童子数人棋而歌，质因听之。童子以一物与质，如枣核，质含之而不觉饥。俄顷，童子谓曰："何不去？"质起视，斧柯尽烂。既归，无复时人。” 可能有点夸张，不过这传说确实指出了围棋那持久的吸引力—— 对局起始，棋盘上是一个棋子也没有，但随着棋局的进程，局面会变得愈来愈复杂。 Although the roots of chess extend to ancient India and Persia, its present rules were fixed only in the early 19th century. Arabic manuscripts do record, move for move, chess-like games from a thousand years ago, but the oldest fully registered game played by recognisably modern rules took place in Barcelona in 1490. By contrast, the earliest completely recorded game of go, pitting Prince Sun Ce against his general, Lu Fan, and showing tactics almost exactly the same as those used today, is believed to date from 196AD. The 12th-century go manual, “Wang You Qing Le Ji”, or “Collection of the Carefree and Innocent Pastime”, includes dozens of complete, numbered diagrams from actual games that were certainly played during the Tang dynasty (618-907AD), as well as complex puzzles that remain testing for present-day amateurs. 尽管象棋的根源最早可以追溯到古印度和波斯，现代象棋的规则确是在19世纪早期才确立下来。一千年前的阿拉伯手稿上确实记录着如象棋一般一步一步进行的游戏，但迟至1490年，才在巴塞罗那出现了第一张记录完整的国际象棋棋谱。从棋谱中可以看出，这次对局完全遵从国际象棋的现代规则。与之相比，第一张记录完整的围棋棋谱据信出现在公元196年。这张棋谱记录的是孙策和他陛下的将军吕范的对局。从棋谱中可以看出，这次对弈采取的战略战术与现代围棋完全相同。在公元12世纪时出现的围棋书籍《忘忧清乐集》中，收录了几十局唐代（公元618~907年）时期的实战对局谱。这些对局在当时肯定出现过，棋谱中都详细记录了对局的手数。这本书籍中还附有复杂的死活题，这些死活题即使对现今的围棋爱好者们来说，也都非常难解。 Tang-dynasty fashion ranked proficiency at go as one of the “four accomplishments” necessary for a cultivated gentleman, along with lute-playing, calligraphy and painting. It was during this era that the passion for go, like so much of the high culture of metropolitan China, made its way to such outlying kingdoms as Korea, Tibet and, most infectiously, Japan. Go was all the rage in Japanese courtly circles by the 11th century, as is known from its appearance in Lady Murasaki''''''''s great novel of the time, “The Tale of Genji”, in the famous—and again often-illustrated—scene where Prince Genji spies through a screen on two ladies playing the game. 唐朝时盛行把“棋”视为君子必备的“四艺”之一，其他还包括“琴、书、画”。就是在这个时期，围棋像许多其他来自中国大都市的高雅文化一样， 传到了周围的番邦：朝鲜、西藏，和最受其影响的日本。围棋是11世纪日本皇室中最盛行的游戏，就像紫氏部在当时最伟大的小说《源氏物语》中描写那最著名、也是最经常被描述场景的一样——光源氏从屏风的缝隙中偷看两位宫女下围棋。 As in China, go in Japan remained for centuries a mere aristocratic pastime, until a sudden flowering under the shoguns of the Edo period (1603-1867). Many of the great warlords of that age being themselves aficionados—in the belief that go provided excellent training for military tactics and strategy—it was not surprising that patronage of the game should have flourished. Four great go schools, all sponsored by the state, were established during the 17th century, as was the ranking system for players that is still used today and the supreme position of Meijin, or go-master to the shogun himself. Meijin Dosaku (who died in 1702), the fourth head of the Honinbo go school, is held by many Japanese to have been the game''''''''s greatest player. Although records of only 153 of his matches are preserved, he is said to have achieved the biggest advances in theory since the invention of go. 就像在中国一样，围棋在日本几个世纪以来也一直只是宫廷皇族的消遣，却在江户幕府时期突然繁盛起来。当时许多大将军怀着围棋可以提高他们军事指挥技巧的信念迷上了它，也难怪对于围棋的支持为何逐渐兴起。17世纪时，四所由国家赞助的高级围棋道场相继建成，同时确立的还有一直沿用到今天的棋手等级制度及“名人”至高无上的地位。“名人”也兼任幕府将军的围棋教师。 曾作为本因坊围棋道场第四任掌门的名人道策（-1702）一直以来都被日本人视为做出色的围棋手。尽管他只留下了153盘棋的对局棋谱， 人们还是认为他是自从围棋被发明以来在理论上贡献最大的人。 Proper patronage, professionalisation and the rivalry between schools certainly elevated the standard of play in Japan far above that in China. It was in Japan, too, that skill in the manufacture of go equipment reached its peak, in the cutting of perfect boards from the rare, 700-year-old kaya tree, the use of slate for the black pieces and clamshell for the white, and in the fashioning of bowls made of precious mulberry wood to keep them in. Today, a new, top-quality set of this type may cost $150,000. （幕府将军）慷慨的资助，职业棋手制度的建立，以及四所围棋学校间激烈的竞争使日本的围棋水平远远超过了中国。 也是在日本，制造围棋用具的技术达到了顶峰：从用700岁的榧树切出完美的木板，到用板岩做黑子、蛤壳做白子，甚至是用桑木打磨加工而成的装棋子的碗。今天，一套这样的崭新高级组合，大概需要15万美元。 Not even the end of state go sponsorship that came with the 1868 Meiji revolution—Japan''''''''s dramatic opening to the West and its headlong embrace of modernism—was to dent this dominance. By the 1880s, Tokyo newspapers had begun sponsoring go tournaments on a scale that made it possible both to sustain high standards and to maintain a class of full-time professional players. When they ventured abroad before the 1930s, to Japan''''''''s new colonies of Taiwan and Korea, and then to Manchuria, or into the warlord-torn Chinese hinterlands, such players felt obliged to handicap themselves by granting native opponents large advantages. 就连国家对围棋的资助由于1868年明治维新（日本突然地对西开放并急切地拥抱现代思想）而终结也没有削弱这股优势。到了1880年，东京的报纸开始赞助围棋锦标赛，赞助十分可观，使得围棋界能够同时兼具保持高标准并养活一群专业的全职棋手。在19世纪30年代前，当他们远洋到台湾、朝鲜、满洲等日本的新殖民地，或是冒险进入被军阀割据【@Wesyman 】的中国内陆时，悬殊的实力差距使他们认为自己有义务为对方让子 。【@Blacklights @Wesyman @little_deer 】 A century of surprises 百年的剧变 That has changed. The past century has been the most dramatic in go history. The first surge of excitement came in 1926, when a Japanese pro, Iwamoto Kaoru, discovered a 12-year-old prodigy by the name of Wu Qing Yuan in Beijing. Once word of the boy''''''''s skill had reached Japan, invitations were soon forthcoming. By the time he was 19, Mr Wu was beating Japan''''''''s top players. Having eliminated all rivals, he won the honour in 1933 of battling the tenth reigning Meijin, Honinbo Shusai, 21st in the line of masters of the great Honinbo school. 但是这些都变了。过去的一个世纪可以说是围棋历史上上变化最为剧烈的时期。 第一股激动人心的大潮在1926年到来：日本的围棋高手岩本薫在北京发现了一个12岁的神童吳清源。关于他高超棋艺的舆论一到达日本，邀请函便接踵而至。当他19岁的时候，吴清源已经打败了日本的顶尖棋手。1933年，在淘汰了所有对手之后，吴清源得到了挑战日本的第十位名人、二十一世本因坊，本因坊秀哉的荣誉。 Mr Wu''''''''s opening, a sharp, direct lunge for territory, was seen as shocking, even insulting, to his elder. The ailing Meijin eventually carried the match, but only just, and after shamelessly exploiting his rank to postpone play 13 times, over three months. It was even rumoured that his brilliant, tide-turning 160th move had been devised, in breach of strict rules, by one of the Honinbo disciples. 吴清源在这盘对弈中采用的布局非常大胆，完全放弃了守地的布局理论，引起了轩然大波。人们甚至认为这是对比他年长的名人的侮辱。拖着病体的名人最终赢了这盘棋，但他充分利用了自己名人上手的地位，对弈期间共打挂13次，将这一盘对局拖延了3个月才下完，赢得很不光彩。 甚至有传言，他出色而逆转全局的第160步是一个坊门弟子帮他想出来的，而这违反了严格的围棋规则。  Start young Five years later, Shusai was unseated by a friend of Mr Wu''''''''s, in another excruciatingly long match that was to become the subject of an allegorical novel about the decline of old Japan by Yasunari Kawabata, who won the 1968 Nobel prize for literature. Soon after, Mr Wu beat his friend and, over the next 20 years, until he was injured by a motorcycle while crossing a Tokyo street, the Chinese prodigy proceeded to crush every one of Japan''''''''s top professionals in an unbroken sequence of victorious ten-game super-matches, known as juban-go. 五年之后，秀哉的位置在另一个痛苦漫长的比赛上被吴清源的朋友取代。这次比赛还成为了1968年诺贝尔文学奖获得者川端康成创造的一部关于旧日本衰退的讽喻小说的主题。不久之后，吴清源打败了他的朋友。因此在他穿过东京一条马路时被摩托车撞伤之前的二十年，这个来自中国的神童成功的打败了每一个向他挑战十番棋（连下十盘决胜负的超级比赛）的日本专业棋手。 Mr Wu''''''''s game declined after his accident, and he retired from professional play in 1983. Still, at 90 years of age, he has had the pleasure of seeing his own countrymen re-emerge as serious challengers for global ascendance. During the Cultural Revolution, go was demoted from its place among the “four accomplishments” to become one of the four, discarded, “rotten pasts”. Yet in the 1970s a few Chinese players, among them Nie Weiping, who had spent years on a pig farm in internal exile, managed to chalk up individual successes against Japanese opponents. In the 1980s the Chinese began to score team wins with growing frequency, until in 1996 the Japanese cancelled a series of bilateral contests because the results had grown embarrassing. 吴清源的比赛自从他出车祸后开始减少。1983年，他退隐江湖。尽管如此，90岁高龄的他仍然乐于看到他的同胞重新浮现为全球优势的严肃挑战者。文革时，围棋从它“四艺”的地位上降级成为被抛弃的“四旧”。虽然如此，1970年代还是有一部分中国棋手，包括在养猪场被永久流放许多年的聂卫平在内，想要打败日本对手达到个人成功。1980年时，中国人开始在团体赛上取得胜利的次数与日俱增，直到1996年日本人由于比赛结果逐渐令他们感到难堪而取消了一系列两国间的比赛才终止。 Significantly, the only two women to reach the rank of nine-dan, roughly equivalent to grand master in chess, are Chinese, and both have emerged within the past 15 years. One of them, Rui Naiwei, is among the world''''''''s top 15 players. In 2000 the Iron Lady, as Ms Rui is often called, trounced the world''''''''s two top-seeded male players, one after the other in a single tournament. 值得注意的是，唯一两个达到九段（大致和象棋中的特级大师【@little_deer 】地位相似）的女棋手，都是中国人，也都是在最近15年里浮现的。其中芮乃伟还是世界排名前15的选手之一。2000年时，“铁娘子”芮乃伟在一场锦标赛中一个接一个的痛击了被世人视为头号种子的两位男棋手。 China''''''''s resurgence may not be surprising. Half of the world''''''''s 30m or so go players are Chinese, and sponsorship has grown in China, along with general prosperity. China now fields some 300 professional players, compared with 450 in Japan. 中国的崛起可能并不令人惊讶，全世界3000万围棋玩家有一半是中国人。同时，随着经济的繁荣，对围棋事业的赞助在中国也开始兴起。与日本的450名相比，中国现在也拥有了近300名专业棋手。  ...and never give up Bridgeman 永不言弃 The new phenomenon in go is the meteoric rise of South Korea, a country long regarded by its neighbours as a backwater. The first Korean to be noticed internationally was Cho Chik-un. Moving to Japan as a child, he went professional in 1967 at the age of 11. By the time he was 27, Mr Cho held all four top Japanese titles at once. Mr Cho still earns more than any other go player in Japan and, say some, ranks fifth in the world in skill. 围棋界的新气象当属韩国的疾速增长，而它长久以来一直被邻国视为一潭死水。第一个被世人瞩目的韩国棋手名叫赵治勋。他幼年时移居日本，并在1967年他11岁时成为了专业棋手。在他27岁时，赵治勋一次性夺得了日本所有四个荣誉。他仍然比其他任何一个日本围棋手赚得更多，在技术上也排名世界第五。 Yet Mr Cho''''''''s record pales in comparison with South Korea''''''''s own Cho Hoon-hyun, currently the world number three. Preferring to stay in his native land, this Mr Cho won a record 16 consecutive Paewan titles, one of South Korea''''''''s swankiest, before losing, in 1992, to his own pupil, the current world champion, Lee Chang-ho. Mr Lee, whose legion of Korean fans call him the Stone Buddha, has the distinction of concurrently holding five out of the seven main international men''''''''s titles. He is thought to earn nearly $1m a year. 尽管如此，赵治勋的记录面对排名世界第三、韩国本土的曹薰铉也是相形见绌。更愿意留在自己国家的他在1992年被他自己的学生、现在的世界第一李昌镐打败之前，曾经连续16次赢得韩国最高荣誉之一的Paewan。被众多韩国粉丝称为“石佛”的李昌镐保持着同时拥有国际主要的7个围棋男子荣誉中5个的记录。据估计，他每年的进账达到了近100万美元。 Korea is go-mad. With less than half Japan''''''''s population, it has almost three times as many active players. Go schools and clubs clog the halls of apartment buildings in Seoul, a city that supports two full-time go channels on cable television. No surprise, then, that Koreans have taken 41 out of the 54 international cups won since worldwide tournaments, rather than just national ones, were first launched in 1988. That compares with ten for Japan and three for China. 韩国实在是疯狂。尽管人口只有日本的一半，韩国的活跃围棋手却是日本的三倍。围棋道场和俱乐部挤满了首尔公寓大楼的走廊，这座城市还在有线电视上同时开通了两个全天播放的围棋频道。毫不惊讶，不仅仅是国家性的比赛，韩国从1988年世界围棋锦标赛开办以来一共夺得了54座奖杯中的41座。而日本获得了10座，中国获得了3座。 The grandest of all, the $400,000 Ing cup, established by a Taiwanese magnate and contested only once every four years, has never left Korea. The best-of-five games finals for the 2004 Ing cup will take place early in January, pitting Korea''''''''s latest bombshell, 19-year-old Choi Cheol-han, against China''''''''s 28-year-old Chang Hao. It promises to be a mighty clash, since—as the Chinese proverb says—chess is a battle, but go is war. 最重大的比赛，也就是由台湾巨头设立的每四年比赛一次、奖金达到400000美金的应氏杯，从来没有离开韩国人之手。2004年的应氏杯五强赛将在一月上旬举行，由韩国最新的爆炸性人物，19岁的崔哲瀚对战中国的28岁选手常昊。这有望成为一场极其激烈的冲突，就像中国的谚语说的“象棋是一场战役， 围棋是一场战争”。  第一次译那么长！还请大家多多包涵哈！ 非常感谢这么多朋友们的提点！！我自己确实没怎么下围棋所以好些地方都是临时维基出来的。。。有其他问题还请多多指教～ 作者: 剑南 时间: 2012-4-30 00:03 围棋 作者: sonze 时间: 2012-4-30 00:06 的确很长，文章内容很充实，十分有助于了解围棋的相关历史啊。呵呵 作者: little_deer 时间: 2012-4-30 00:16 "such players felt obliged to handicap themselves by granting native opponents large advantages. 这些棋手对于阻止自己大比分战胜当地对手甚至都心怀感激。" 这句应该是描述水平的差距太大,不得不通过让子让先等手段增加自己取胜的难度 楼主可能不下围棋,象 153 matches在围棋中应该是指局或盘吧. grand master 是特级大师 作者: join_soon 时间: 2012-4-30 09:23 we should promote this, so that the best of young people will play games, instead of doing "guoxue" or literature. Note that "go" is not "guoxue", because it is "from" Japan, hahahaha. 作者: so_hal 时间: 2012-4-30 11:15 i remember that this game was very popular in the past years 作者: so_hal 时间: 2012-4-30 11:54 上者,远其疏张,置以会围;中者,则务相绝遮要,以争便求利;下者,则守边隅 这句话谁能明了是什么意思，哪位大师给解释下？ 作者: 我是烟囱哥 时间: 2012-5-1 09:24 The most intellectually testing game ever devised?有史以来设计出的的最考智商的游戏？ 作者: 我是烟囱哥 时间: 2012-5-1 09:42 THE heavyweight pros on late-night cable television boast nicknames such as Monster, Razor, Butcher, Assassin and Knitting Needle. 自诩为野兽，闪电幽魂（DOTA中的一个英雄，也可以叫做复仇电魂，但在游戏中翻译为闪电幽魂（Razor）。），屠宰者，刺客和织针者的午夜有线电视的重量级选手们。 作者: Wesyman 时间: 2012-5-1 12:12 When they ventured abroad before the 1930s, to Japan''''''''s new colonies of Taiwan and Korea, and then to Manchuria, or into the warlord-torn Chinese hinterlands, such players felt obliged to handicap themselves by granting native opponents large advantages. warlord-torn用“军阀割据”更好些，“蹂躏”读上去带有感情色彩，并且有战争刚过去的暗示（围棋交流赛更可能发生在军阀间相对和平的时期）。 granting large advantage应该是指围棋中的“让子”。 作者: join_soon 时间: 2012-5-1 12:20 so_hal 发表于 2012-4-30 11:54 who cares? if you are really interested in Go (not Weiqi!! hahaha), then, understand Japanese and Korean. You do not need to know classic Chinese to know Go. Go is not at the core of Chinese culture; the core of Chinese culture is corrupted literature, such erotic peoms. 作者: so_hal 时间: 2012-5-1 14:47 join_soon 发表于 2012-5-1 12:20 really? i didn''''''''t know much about Chinese culture in fact 作者: join_soon 时间: 2012-5-2 08:59 so_hal 发表于 2012-5-1 14:47 do not believe me? take a look of this post. 百度：屌丝 http://www./forum.php? ... 6&fromuid=66321 作者: so_hal 时间: 2012-5-2 10:10 join_soon 发表于 2012-5-2 08:59 sorry , i have no user rights to there 作者: Dezazer 时间: 2012-5-2 23:57 不会下围棋 智商不太高的人 飘过~ 作者: Blacklights 时间: 2012-5-4 19:29 so_hal 发表于 2012-4-30 11:54 学过一点点围棋，不过不是大师 直译起来有点麻烦。。。 一流棋手以大模样布局，呈合围的势态，以对全局的掌控获得胜利。中等棋手则致力于阻拦或切断对方重要的棋子，用以争取到利益。下等的棋手则只会守住棋盘上的边角之地。 不过对于不会围棋的，可能还是比较难理解吧，意会就行了  作者: Blacklights 时间: 2012-5-4 19:42 Monster, Razor, Butcher, Assassin and Knitting Needle是棋手们外号的英文翻译 不过翻着翻着就有点变味了 Monster 不知道是说谁 可以肯定 Razor是 “剃刀”坂田荣男；Butcher是“屠夫”加藤正夫 Assassin 是“刺客”朴某 (朴正祥？)还是 “杀手”刘昌赫 ？ Knitting Needle 不知道是什么翻译过来的，很有可能是说棋坛女子第一人“绣花针”芮乃伟 handicap 是英文的围棋术语，意思是“让子” handicap themselves 意思就是 给对方让子(不是被对方让子) such players felt obliged to handicap themselves by granting native opponents large advantages. 由于对当地的对手有很大的优势，这些棋手认为他们应该在下棋时给对方让子 作者: xjding 时间: 2012-5-4 21:37 本帖最后由 xjding 于 2012-5-5 22:15 编辑 as well as complex puzzles that remain testing for present-day amateurs. ======= 探讨：还有数个复杂的迷局，对于今天的围棋爱好者来说依然是一种考验。 The best-of-five games finals for the 2004 Ing cup will take place early in January ========== 探讨：2004年应氏杯五局三胜制的决赛将于1月初举行 作者: yinbo20081314 时间: 2012-5-4 22:20 辛苦了，同志 作者: so_hal 时间: 2012-5-4 23:31 Blacklights 发表于 2012-5-4 19:29 牛~ 作者: 哒哒不开心 时间: 2012-5-5 00:21 学习了，楼主辛苦了。。。 作者: 悠悠万事97 时间: 2012-5-5 06:37 The most intellectually testing game ever devised? 人类设计的智商最高的游戏？ intellectually testing：最考验智慧的 对于电脑来说非常困难 太难了，电脑玩不转 THE heavyweight pros on late-night cable television boast nicknames such as Monster, Razor, Butcher, Assassin and Knitting Needle. 午夜有线电视的巨型拥趸们会自夸为Monster, Razor, Butcher, Assassin 和Knitting Needle。 午夜有线电视的巨型拥趸们会为自己取一些诸如怪兽、剃刀、屠夫、杀手和织衣针的绰号。 take turns placing little stones, some black, some white, on a flat wooden grid.轮流把或黑或白的小石子平整的木格子上。 轮流把或黑或白的小石子放到平整的木格子上。 for a winning program,漏译？ oldest surviving game of pure mental skill还有可能是世界上现存最早的纯智力游戏 中文有些乱：还有可能是世界上现存的最古老的纯智力游戏 a warning that would have benefited, say, the designers of France''''''''s 1930s Maginot line. 这对于1930年代法国马其顿防线的设计者来说是个忠告。 这是对许多人——例如1930年代法国马其顿防线的设计者——的忠告。 作者: 我是烟囱哥 时间: 2012-5-5 10:41 Maginot line应该是马其诺防线才对。 作者: 悠悠万事97 时间: 2012-5-5 13:24 那个拥趸的绰号应该是给的他们的偶像 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-5 16:03 悠悠万事97 发表于 2012-5-5 13:24 感觉应该是那样不过原文要怎么看出来啊。。。 作者: 西米 时间: 2012-5-5 18:06 本帖最后由 西米 于 2012-5-5 18:08 编辑 很有意思的一篇文章。楼主辛苦。 第二段： 1.在英国，。。中国，。。韩国------似乎应该是“在英文、中文、韩文中” 2.“would have benefited”的意思似乎没有译出。 第三段： 英语原文对此故事的叙述与古文有所不同，如“two sages”（中文：童子数人）、“watch”（中文：听之），我觉得在这种场合，作为译者应当尊重英文原文，而不是照抄中文原出处。如有需要，可以用注释解决。本译文中还有若干处有此同样问题。 第四段： 1.register，这里似乎就是记载、纪录的意思，用“登记”太拘泥于本词的中文第一释义了。 2.“完整而编号过的”----这里指的是在棋谱中把每一棋步都按顺序编号并显示在棋局图中。似乎应当加些字使意思更明了。不然有些读者可能不知怎么回事。 作者: majer 时间: 2012-5-5 18:35 monster可能是藤泽秀行，翻译绰号真是蛋痛 标题的game不妨译成 博弈 作者: majer 时间: 2012-5-5 18:43 历史上最著名的比赛包括1835年的“杀到吐血之战”、1926年的“著名绝杀之战”以及1945年的“原子弹之战”。 “之战”应该用“局”代替比较合适 1835年的呕血局 1926年的杀局 1945年的原子弹局 作者: majer 时间: 2012-5-5 18:54 这是对许多人——例如1930年代法国马奇诺防线的设计者——的忠告。 改过了，仍然没改对 这句话是虚拟语态，要是马奇诺防线设计者知道这句话的话可以受益。马奇诺防线即是“守边隅”，正好是弈道的下策 另外提个建议，这篇文章是讲围棋的，围棋在古代称为“弈”，下棋称为“对弈”，文中的game不妨都用这类词来表达 作者: majer 时间: 2012-5-5 19:00 The 12th-century go manual, “Wang You Qing Le Ji”, or “Collection of the Carefree and Innocent Pastime”, includes dozens of complete, numbered diagrams from actual games that were certainly played during the Tang dynasty (618-907AD), as well as complex puzzles that remain testing for present-day amateurs. diagrams from actual games 实战棋谱 complex puzzles 珍珑局？ 作者: majer 时间: 2012-5-5 19:12 Tang-dynasty fashion ranked proficiency at go as one of the “four accomplishments” necessary for a cultivated gentleman, along with lute-playing, calligraphy and painting. It was during this era that the passion for go, like so much of the high culture of metropolitan China, made its way to such outlying kingdoms as Korea, Tibet and, most infectiously, Japan. cultivated gentleman 君子？ 朝鲜、吐蕃、日本 这个翻译很奇怪，既然把西藏称为吐蕃，那么朝鲜就应该是高丽 outlying kingdoms也算不上是附属国，番邦比较合适 作者: majer 时间: 2012-5-5 19:29 As in China, go in Japan remained for centuries a mere aristocratic pastime, until a sudden flowering under the shoguns of the Edo period (1603-1867). 就像在中国一样，围棋在日本几个世纪以来也一直只是宫廷皇族的消遣，直到江户幕府时期才逐渐繁盛。 When they ventured abroad before the 1930s, to Japan''''''''s new colonies of Taiwan and Korea, and then to Manchuria, or into the warlord-torn Chinese hinterlands, such players felt obliged to handicap themselves by granting native opponents large advantages. 在19世纪30年代前，当他们远洋到台湾、朝鲜、满洲等日本的新殖民地，或是被军阀割据【@Wesyman 】的中国内地冒险时，悬殊的实力差距使他们认为自己有义务为对方让子 。【@Blacklights @Wesyman @little_deer 】 20世纪扩张海外殖民地及其后侵略中国内陆（这里应该是指关内）时 作者: lpsxrj 时间: 2012-5-5 22:11 The most famed matches in history include the Blood Vomiting Game of 1835, the Famous Killing Game of 1926 and the Atomic Bomb Game of 1945. 历史上最著名的比赛包括1835年的“杀到吐血之战”、1926年的“著名绝杀之战”以及1945年的“原子弹之战”。 对上述译文作一点补充。1835年的应当日本围棋史上著名的“因彻吐血局”，可以参看百度的这个资料：http://baike.baidu.com/view/1183597.htm。1926年的应当是日本院社对抗赛第一局秀哉对雁金准一。资料可看http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_578636040100v4k5.html。1945年的应当是第三期本因坊战决赛：桥本宇太郎VS岩本薰，百度百科也有资料可查：http://baike.baidu.com/view/240563.htm 这些都是围棋史上的名局。十多年没下围棋了，也还有印象。建议译文稍作修改，比如1835年的“因彻吐血之局”，赤星因彻因此局棋而亡，还不只是吐血那么轻。 另外回复7楼的。“上者,远其疏张,置以会围;中者,则务相绝遮要,以争便求利;下者,则守边隅”，即便你围棋已经入门了，都不太好解释啊。比方“围棋十诀”，小的时候是硬记住了，成年之后才慢慢体会得深。 作者: 红叶 时间: 2012-5-5 23:28 我想问下楼主会下围棋么？ 作者: qwerab 时间: 2012-5-7 09:34 不错，我也算资深棋友了，坛子里有朋友愿意切磋的马？ 至于文章，有些掌故难以考证，难为楼主了。尤其那几个绰号，除了剃刀和刽子手，别的都不明所以 the Blood Vomiting Game of 1835, the Famous Killing Game of 1926 and the Atomic Bomb Game of 1945. 这三局分别是赤星因彻和丈和的“吐血之局”，本因坊秀哉对雁金准一的“世纪杀棋之名局”，岩本薰与桥本的“原爆下对局” 作者: qwerab 时间: 2012-5-7 09:37 The 12th-century go manual, “Wang You Qing Le Ji”, or “Collection of the Carefree and Innocent Pastime”, includes dozens of complete, numbered diagrams from actual games that were certainly played during the Tang dynasty (618-907AD), as well as complex puzzles that remain testing for present-day amateurs. 这里diagram翻译成图表太脱离语境了，应该是“棋谱” 后文puzzle也是，叫做“死活题” 作者: qwerab 时间: 2012-5-7 09:41 It was in Japan, too, that skill in the manufacture of go equipment reached its peak, in the cutting of perfect boards from the rare, 700-year-old kaya tree, the use of slate for the black pieces and clamshell for the white, and in the fashioning of bowls made of precious mulberry wood to keep them in. 也是在日本，制造围棋用具的技术达到了顶峰：从用700岁的榧树切出完美的木板，到用板岩做黑子、蛤壳做白子，甚至是用桑木做的充满时尚气息的装棋子的碗。 fashioning翻译的太不认真，怎么能是时尚气息，fashion动词是加工打磨的意思 作者: qwerab 时间: 2012-5-7 09:43 The first surge of excitement came in 1926, when a Japanese pro, Iwamoto Kaoru, discovered a 12-year-old prodigy by the name of Wu Qing Yuan in Beijing. 第一股激动人心的大潮在1926年到来：日本的围棋高手岩本薫发现了一个12岁的神童，来自北京的吳清源。 从事实上也知道，吴清源不是北京人。。。再看句子，In Beijing修饰的不是吴老，而是discover 所以实际上应该是：岩本薰在北京发现了1岁的神童吴清源 作者: Mr.Puppy 时间: 2012-5-8 16:22 “因此在他穿过东京一条马路时被摩托车装伤之前的二十年，这个来自中国的神通成功的打败了每一个向他挑战十番棋（连下十盘决胜负的超级比赛）的日本专业棋手。”有2个错字。 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-11 10:26 西米 发表于 2012-5-5 18:06 谢谢指教！ would have benefited 我觉得在“忠告”一词中已经有所体现，“忠告”应该也是有对听者有益的意思 英文中翻译中国古文等处，我是觉得作为他们也是勉强的翻译过去，我们再拿回来为什么还要拘泥于别人的翻译呢，就像以前出过的诗句翻译的笑话、还把作者名字完全直译弄错了一样 其他建议都有采纳，非常感谢！希望在继续交流！ 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-11 10:40 majer 发表于 2012-5-5 19:29 太感谢。。。点评这么详细！ 那些用“局”还是“之战”，我觉得后者会比较趣味一点啦，，不过还是改过来了！ 马奇诺防线那一句麻烦再看一下？我觉得如果有个say要表示比如的话还是有点不好译 后面关于日本棋手到侵略国的那句，原文好像没有用侵略那么倾向的词语啊，，这种情况应该！？ 欢迎多多交流！ 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-11 10:46 qwerab 发表于 2012-5-7 09:43 非常感谢指教 当时翻到后面差点也要吐血了所以，，，下次一定注意！！！作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-11 10:47 Mr.Puppy 发表于 2012-5-8 16:22 谢谢 作者: 西米 时间: 2012-5-11 11:25 本帖最后由 西米 于 2012-5-11 11:30 编辑 litoeknee 发表于 2012-5-11 10:26 "英文中翻译中国古文等处，我是觉得作为他们也是勉强的翻译过去，我们再拿回来为什么还要拘泥于别人的翻译呢，就像以前出过的诗句翻译的笑话、还把作者名字完全直译弄错了一样" ----- 如果英文原作者是在“翻译”或引用中国古文，你说的当然是对的。但很多情况下，人家不是在翻译，而是在按照自己的理解转述一个故事或一个概念，这中间他们可能会加减一些东西，从而达到渲染、简化、强调、易于理解等等目的。忠实于原作者原意，不能说是“拘泥”。 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-11 12:57 西米 发表于 2012-5-11 11:25 有道理！那应该怎么避免前面提到的那种不知怎么处理的情况呢 作者: 西米 时间: 2012-5-11 13:13 litoeknee 发表于 2012-5-11 12:57 如果原文在翻译引用诗句人名时出现错误，当然不必照搬他的错误，可以径直改过来。如果是他在用自己的意思转述时发生重要偏差，可以用注释来解决。 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-11 13:19 西米 发表于 2012-5-11 13:13 是这样！非常感谢指教！！！ 作者: 多多呀多多 时间: 2012-5-17 12:52 我感觉这篇文章很难翻。辛苦了！ 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-18 19:39 很久没来论坛了。今天登陆就看到了这一篇很感兴趣的文章。还是2004年的，不知楼主从哪里找到的。作为一个超级棋迷，我当然要发表点自己的意见了。 标题：The most intellectually testing game ever devised? 原译：有史以来设计出最考验智慧的游戏？ 试译：人类所发明的最高等智力游戏？ 题外话：尧造围棋，以教子丹朱。或云：舜以子商均愚，故作围棋以教之。 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-18 21:49 本帖最后由 dqzxf 于 2012-5-20 06:01 编辑 第一段： 1、THE heavyweight pros on late-night cable television boast nicknames such as Monster, Razor, Butcher, Assassin and Knitting Needle. 原译：午夜有线电视的巨型拥趸们会为自己取一些诸如怪兽、剃刀、屠夫、杀手和织衣针的绰号。 试译：出现在午夜有线电视（围棋节目）中的职业高手都有显赫的绰号，如妖怪、剃刀、刺客和织针等。 解释：Monster应该是指“妖刀”马晓春，韩国人转译成了妖怪。为此马晓还颇为不快。“剃刀”就只有坂田容男了。“屠夫”就是“侩子手”加藤正夫了；“刺客”应该是指朴永训。Blacklights考证的不错，“绣花针”是“魔女”芮乃伟在中国时的绰号，在美国时被称作“织针”，现在一般的棋迷恐怕都不知道了。 2、 It is a simple parlour game where two opponents, comfortably seated and often equipped with nothing more than folding paper fans and cigarettes, take turns placing little stones, some black, some white, on a flat wooden grid. 原译：这只是在客厅就能进行的简单游戏，双方甚至不需要纸扇香烟之外的其他东西,只需要舒舒服服的坐着,轮流把或黑或白的小石子放到平整的木格子上。 试译：这只是一种简单的游戏。参加游戏的两个人可以舒舒服服地坐在客厅里，除了折扇和香烟外，他俩不需要任何其他装备。他俩轮流将一些黑色或白色的小石子放到一块画有格子的平整木板上。 3、Simple regarding rules and gear, that is, yet so challenging that in this mind-game, unlike chess, and despite the long-standing offer of a $1.6m reward for a winning program, no computer has yet been able to outwit a clever ten-year-old. 原译：这一智力游戏虽然规则和工具都不复杂，却仍然充满挑战性。与象棋不同，尽管已经有一直等候着的160万美元作为可获胜程序的奖赏，仍然没有一台计算机能够在围棋上胜过一个聪明的十岁小孩。 试译：这个智力游戏虽然规则与道具都很简单，但却非常具有挑战性。尽管早就有人悬赏，如果有谁能够编出能够打败（职业棋手）的计算机程序，就能获得160万美元的奖金，但时至今日，没有任何一台计算机的对弈水平能够超过一个聪明的10岁棋童。这一点，国际象棋是望尘莫及。 解释：这个悬赏是台湾的应昌期先生在上1987年左右提出的。只要有任何一台计算机在本世纪内能够在19路棋盘上打败一名中等水平的职业初段棋手，就能得到这笔奖金。十几年过去了，丝毫没有可能。有很多软件开发者要求将这个悬赏延伸到这个世纪末。但在国际象棋上，“深蓝”早就战胜了人类的最高水平者。 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-18 23:01 本帖最后由 dqzxf 于 2012-5-18 23:33 编辑 第三段： 1、The game known in English as go—Igo in Japanese, Weiqi in Chinese, Baduk in Korean—is not just more difficult and subtle than chess. It may also be the world''''''''s oldest surviving game of pure mental skill. 原译：在英国，人们称这个游戏为Go，也就是日文所说的囲碁（Igo），中文里的围棋，和韩文中的??（Baduk）。它不仅比象棋更复杂、更玄妙，还有可能是世界上现存最古老的纯智力游戏。 试译：这个游戏的名称英文叫Go，日文叫Igo，中文叫围棋，韩文叫Baduk。这种游戏不仅比国际象棋更复杂、更玄妙，而且还很可能是世界上现存最古老的纯智力游戏。 2、One of these strategists, Huan Tan (who died in 56AD), advises in his work “Xin Lun”, or “New Treatise”, that the best approach in the game is to “spread your pieces widely so as to encircle the opponent.” Second best is to attack and choke off enemy formations. The worst strategy is to cling to a defence of your own territory—a warning that would have benefited, say, the designers of France''''''''s 1930s Maginot line. 原译：其中名叫桓谭（逝世于公元56年）的战略家在他的《新论》中指出：上者，远其疏张，置以会围；中者，则务相绝遮要，以争便求利；下者，则守边隅。要是像马奇诺防线的设计者一样的人得到过这句忠告的话，将受益匪浅。 试译：桓谭（逝于公元56年）就是一位酷爱围棋的战略家。他在其著作《新论》中指出：高手下棋都是“远远落子以便围住对方的棋子”。次一点水平的棋手只会贴身扭杀和吃对方的棋子。而初学者只是一味守住自己的地盘。要是上世纪30年代法国马奇诺防线的设计者们能悟到这个道理就好了。 解释：这句话是《棋经十三篇》中序言的一部分。既然原译者理解有偏差，翻译过来就应该保持英文作者的原味。这句话的原意应该是：上者远远似乎不着边际落子，但需要的时候这些棋子就起到合围的作用，因此这是深明棋理而取得的胜利。水平一般的棋手，则需要双方竭力扭杀，争夺局部利益，因此胜负不明，必须等待终局计算子数才知胜负。而初学者只是守住边角，将一颗颗棋子填成方格状，只为了在狭小的地域中求活。 choke off ——将对方没有气的棋子从棋盘上提掉。 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-19 07:37 第四段 1、Go also had a place in Han-era folklore, in the form of the oft-illustrated story of the woodcutter, Wang Zhi. Wandering in a forest, he is said to have happened upon two sages playing a game.Wang settled down to watch, and became so absorbed that when at last one of the players suggested he should go home, he found that the handle of his axe had rotted entirely away. Returning to his village and recognising no one, Wang realised he had been gone for a hundred years. 原译：围棋在汉代的民间传说中也占有一席之地，比如樵夫王质的故事。“《述异记》烂柯人 信安郡石室山，晋时王质伐木至，见童子数人棋而歌，质因听之。童子以一物与质，如枣核，质含之而不觉饥。俄顷，童子谓曰："何不去？"质起视，斧柯尽烂。既归，无复时人。” 试译：有关围棋的故事在汉代民间传说中也占有一席之地。如记述樵夫王质的故事。这个故事有多个版本，一般都配有插图。王质入山伐木，偶遇两位长相不凡的老者在对弈。王质坐下来观棋。他一心观赏棋局，全然忘了过了多长时间。当一位老人提醒他应该回家了时，他这才发现他伐木斧头的斧柄已经全都烂没了。他回到自己所住的村庄后，发现村里的人都不认识了。王质这才明白自己已经离开村子一百年了。 解释：这个故事来自《列仙全传》。围棋因而得名烂柯 2、 A small exaggeration, perhaps, yet the tale says much about the enduring fascination of a game that begins with an empty board and slowly evolves into ever-increasing complexity. 原译：可能有点夸张，不过这传说确实指出了围棋那持久的吸引力——从空无一物的木板慢慢演变成一个越来越复杂的难题。 试译：这个故事可能有点夸张，不过也确实说明了一盘对局所具有的持久吸引力。围棋对局起始，棋盘上是一个棋子也没有，但随着棋局的进程，局面会变得愈来愈复杂。 解释：a game 一盘对局。 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-19 15:07 本帖最后由 dqzxf 于 2012-5-19 15:15 编辑 第五段 1、Although the roots of chess extend to ancient India and Persia, its present rules were fixed only in the early 19th century. 原译：尽管象棋的根源最早可以追溯到古印度和波斯，现代象棋的规则确是在19世纪早期才确立下来。 改译：尽管国际象棋的起源可以追述到古印度和波斯帝国时期，其对局规则却直到19世纪初才确定下来。 2、 Arabic manuscripts do record, move for move, chess-like games from a thousand years ago, but the oldest fully registered game played by recognisably modern rules took place in Barcelona in 1490. 原译：一千年前的阿拉伯手稿上确实记录着如象棋一般一步一步进行的游戏，但是最早进行完整记录可辨认的现代规则象棋游戏是在1490年的巴塞罗那。 改译：尽管一千年前的阿拉伯语手稿中就已经记录了多种一步接一步移动棋子的棋戏，但迟至1490年，才出现了第一张记录完整的国际象棋棋谱。这次对局的地点是在巴塞罗那。从棋谱中可以看出，这次对局完全遵从国际象棋的现代规则。 3、By contrast, the earliest completely recorded game of go, pitting Prince Sun Ce against his general, Lu Fan, and showing tactics almost exactly the same as those used today, is believed to date from 196AD. 原译：相比之下，留有完整记录的最早的围棋游戏应该是公元196年时孙策和他的将军吕范的对决，就连当时的规则策略都与现在的一模一样。 试译：与之相比，第一张记录完整的围棋棋谱据信出现在公元196年。这张棋谱记录的是孙策和他陛下的将军吕范的对局。从棋谱中可以看出，这次对弈采取的战略战术与现代围棋完全相同。 4、 The 12th-century go manual, “Wang You Qing Le Ji”, or “Collection of the Carefree and Innocent Pastime”, includes dozens of complete, numbered diagrams from actual games that were certainly played during the Tang dynasty (618-907AD), as well as complex puzzles that remain testing for present-day amateurs. 原译：12世纪的围棋棋谱《忘忧清乐集》记载了数十个完整而编号过的（在棋谱中把每一棋步都按顺序编号并显示在棋局图中）唐朝实战棋谱，还有数个复杂的死活题（珍珑局？），对于今天的围棋爱好者来说也是一种考验 试译：在公元12世纪时出现的围棋书籍《忘忧清乐集》中，收录了几十局唐代（公元618~907年）时期的实战对局谱。这些对局在当时肯定出现过，棋谱中都详细记录了对局的手数。这本书籍中还附有复杂的死活题，这些死活题即使对现今的围棋爱好者们来说，也都非常难解。 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-19 16:10 第六段 1、Tang-dynasty fashion ranked proficiency at go as one of the “four accomplishments” necessary for a cultivated gentleman, along with lute-playing, calligraphy and painting. 原译：唐朝时盛行把“棋”视为君子必备的“四艺”之一，其他还包括“琴、书、画”。 试译：唐朝时期围棋非常盛行，人们将下好围棋视为文人雅士必备的“四艺”之一。“四艺”指的是棋、琴、书、画。 2、It was during this era that the passion for go, like so much of the high culture of metropolitan China, made its way to such outlying kingdoms as Korea, Tibet and, most infectiously, Japan. 原译：就是在这个时期，对围棋的激情也像其他许多高水平的文化一样从母国中国传到了周围的番邦：朝鲜、西藏、和最受其影响的日本。 试译：也正是在这一时期，围棋像许多其他来自中国大都市的高雅文化一样，传到了其周围的国家和地区，如朝鲜、西藏和日本等，在这些地方流行开来。其中日本受到的影响最甚。 3、Go was all the rage in Japanese courtly circles by the 11th century, as is known from its appearance in Lady Murasaki''''''''s great novel of the time, “The Tale of Genji”, in the famous—and again often-illustrated—scene where Prince Genji spies through a screen on two ladies playing the game. 原译：围棋是11世纪日本皇室中最盛行的游戏，就像紫氏部在当时最伟大的小说《源氏物语》中描写那最著名、也是最经常被描述场景的一样——光源氏从屏风的缝隙中偷看两位宫女下围棋。 试译：围棋是11世纪日本宫廷中最盛行的游戏。紫氏部在当时最伟大的小说《源氏物语》中描绘了这样的场景：光源氏王子从屏风的缝隙中偷看两位宫女下围棋。从这个故事中可以看出当时日本围棋流行之盛。记述这个故事的多个版本书籍也大都配有插图。 作者: 英年早肥 时间: 2012-5-19 16:18 管现存他的比赛记录只有153盘【@little_deer 】，人们还是认为他是自从围棋被发明以来在理论上取得成就最高的人。 Tang-dynasty fashion ranked proficiency at go as one of the “four accomplishments” necessary for a cultivated gentleman Proper patronage, professionalisation and the rivalry between schools certainly elevated the standard of play in Japan 那段唐朝blblbl...的英语重复啦楼主，重新排下版吧 作者: 英年早肥 时间: 2012-5-19 16:43 本帖最后由 英年早肥 于 2012-5-19 18:09 编辑 Not even the end of state go sponsorship that came with the 1868 Meiji revolution—Japan''''''''s dramatic opening to the West and its headlong embrace of modernism...... 以下是韦氏对dramatic的三条定义： 1 : of or relating to the drama <a dramatic actor> 2 a : suitable to or characteristic of the drama <a dramatic attempt to escape> b : striking in appearance or effect <a dramatic pause> 3 of an opera singer : having a powerful voice and a declamatory style ― compare LYRIC 在下以为此处dramatic应该理解为2b，即“突然的”更好些。 就连政府对围棋的赞助支持由于1868年明治维新（日本突然对西方开放并急切地拥抱现代思想）而终结也。。。。。。 Five years later, Shusai was unseated by a friend of Mr Wu''''''''s, in another excruciatingly long match that was to become the subject of an allegorical novel about the decline of old Japan by Yasunari Kawabata, who won the 1968 Nobel prize for literature. 五年之后，秀哉的位置在另一个痛苦漫长的比赛上被吴清源的朋友取代。这次比赛还成为了1968年诺贝尔文学奖获得者川端康成创造的一部关于旧日本衰退的讽喻小说的主题。 China''''''''s resurgence may not be surprising. Half of the world''''''''s 30m or so go players are Chinese, and sponsorship has grown in China, along with general prosperity. China now fields some 300 professional players, compared with 450 in Japan. 个人认为这里的sponsorship 和 general prosperity是因果关系而非并列关系 中国的崛起可能并不令人惊讶，全世界3000万围棋玩家有一半是中国人。同时，伴随着经济的全面繁荣，对围棋事业的赞助支持在中国也开始兴起。与日本的450名相比，中国现在也拥有了近300名专业棋手。 随时应该是笔误。。。“仍然”的话，原文中并没有这个意思啊。 他幼年时移居日本，并在1967年他11随时成为了专业棋手。在他27岁时，趙治勳一次性夺得了日本所有四个荣誉。他仍然比其他任何一个日本围棋手赚得更多，在技术上也排名世界第五。 a city that supports two full-time go channels on cable television. 这座城市还在有线电视上同时开通了两个全天播放的围棋频道。 还有就是趙治勳在文中有繁体版也有简体版，最好能统一下。而最后的那个韩国新星，他叫崔哲瀚。 十分感谢楼主的翻译，真是一道文学盛宴啊！ @litoeknee 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-19 20:30 第七段 1、Four great go schools, all sponsored by the state, were established during the 17th century, as was the ranking system for players that is still used today and the supreme position of Meijin, or go-master to the shogun himself. 原译：17世纪时，四所由国家赞助的高级围棋道场相继建成，同时确立的还有一直沿用到今天的评价体系，以及“名人”的优越地位和身为围棋大师的幕府将军。 试译：17世纪时，四所由国家赞助的大型围棋学校建立起来，同时建立起来的还有一直沿用至今的棋手等级制度及“名人”至高无上的地位。“名人”也兼任幕府将军的围棋教师。 解释：这里作者显然是指日本的围棋四大家，即本因坊、安井、井上、林四大家。四大家都领有幕府的俸禄，职业世袭。并非四所围棋学校。作者对围棋史了解的还很不够。这个等级制度也就是棋手的段位制。九段即名人，同时代只能有一人，地位及其显赫，与现在完全不同。 2、Meijin Dosaku (who died in 1702), the fourth head of the Honinbo go school, is held by many Japanese to have been the game''''''''s greatest player. Although records of only 153 of his matches are preserved, he is said to have achieved the biggest advances in theory since the invention of go. 原译：曾作为本因坊围棋道场第四任主人的名人道策（-1702）一直以来都被日本人视为做出色的围棋手。尽管现存他的比赛记录只有153盘，人们还是认为他是自从围棋被发明以来在理论上取得成就最高的人。 试译：逝于1702年的道策名人是本因坊的第四任掌门，他被许多日本人奉为史上棋力最强的棋手。尽管他只留下了153盘棋的对局棋谱，人们还是认为他是自围棋诞生以来对围棋理论做出最大贡献之人。 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-19 21:16 第八段： 1、Proper patronage, professionalisation and the rivalry between schools certainly elevated the standard of play in Japan far above that in China. 原译：适当的赞助、专业的素养和棋院间的竞争使得日本的围棋水平毫无争议的超过了中国。 改译：（幕府将军）慷慨的资助，职业棋手制度的建立，以及四所围棋学校间激烈的竞争使日本的围棋水平远远超过了中国。 2、It was in Japan, too, that skill in the manufacture of go equipment reached its peak, in the cutting of perfect boards from the rare, 700-year-old kaya tree, the use of slate for the black pieces and clamshell for the white, and in the fashioning of bowls made of precious mulberry wood to keep them in. Today, a new, top-quality set of this type may cost $150,000. 原译：也是在日本，制造围棋用具的技术达到了顶峰：从用700岁的榧树切出完美的木板，到用板岩做黑子、蛤壳做白子，甚至是用桑木打磨加工而成的装棋子的碗。今天，一套像这样的崭新高级组合，大概需要15万美元。 改译：日本的棋具制作水平也达到了顶峰。他们用珍稀的有700年树龄的榧木刻制作出完美的棋盘；用页岩制作黑子，蛤壳制作白子；用贵重的桑木精心雕琢成棋罐。现今，购置这样一套新的高档棋具大概需要15万美元。 解释：蛤碁石是日式围棋的代表，其白子用天然扇贝磨制而成，做工细腻。根据其色彩、形状、光泽和花纹，分为“雪印”“月印”“实用印”三个级别；黑子则为日本三重县熊野市野外的一种名叫那智黑石打磨而成。这种石头是一种特殊的矿石，据说古代遣隋使曾以此进贡中国，可做砚、小饰物等，因产量很少，可见其高档珍贵。这种石头通体黝黑，磨出的棋子晶莹光亮，手感极佳，无论是直径还是厚度都要比白石多做出0.3mm。 作者: yannanchen 时间: 2012-5-19 21:35 The game known in English as go 英文叫做go， （不是在英国叫做go） 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-19 21:55 本帖最后由 dqzxf 于 2012-5-19 21:58 编辑 第九段 1、Not even the end of state go sponsorship that came with the 1868 Meiji revolution—Japan''''''''s dramatic opening to the West and its headlong embrace of modernism—was to dent this dominance. 原译：就连国家的围棋资助人身份由于1868年明治维新（日本开始戏剧性地对西开放并向前拥向现代化）而终结也没有削弱这股优势。 改译：1868年的明治维新，日本开始了对西方的急剧开放和匆匆忙忙的现代化改革。伴随着这场变革，国家不再资助围棋了。但这并没有削弱围棋的影响力。 2、By the 1880s, Tokyo newspapers had begun sponsoring go tournaments on a scale that made it possible both to sustain high standards and to maintain a class of full-time professional players. 原译：到了，1880年东京的报纸开始一定规模地赞助围棋锦标赛，使其能够同时兼具高标准与一群专业的全职棋手。 改译：到了十九世纪80年代，东京的各家报社纷纷开始资助各种围棋锦标赛。这些报社资助的金额很高，足以养活一批以围棋为职业的棋手，使日本的围棋水平保持在很高的水准上。 3、When they ventured abroad before the 1930s, to Japan''''''''s new colonies of Taiwan and Korea, and then to Manchuria, or into the warlord-torn Chinese hinterlands, such players felt obliged to handicap themselves by granting native opponents large advantages. 原译：在19世纪30年代前，当他们远洋到台湾、朝鲜、满洲等日本的新殖民地，或是被军阀割据的中国内陆冒险时，悬殊的实力差距使他们认为自己有义务为对方让子。 改译：二十世纪30年代前，当日本的职业棋手远行海外，来到台湾、朝鲜还有后来的满洲这些日本新征服的殖民地，或冒险进入军阀混战的中国内陆时，他们发现当地棋手的水平远远不及他们。在与当地棋手对弈时，他们不得不让对方很多子。 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-19 22:04 本帖最后由 dqzxf 于 2012-5-20 06:18 编辑 关于小标题 A century of surprises 原译： 一个世纪的惊喜 建议：百年之剧变 Don''''''''t expect to stop 原译： 别想停下来 建议：日本围棋独大 解释：这篇文章的前一部分是说围棋生于中国，但成长于日本，日本围棋领先于世界数百年，这种局面似乎永远也不会出现改变。后一部分是说20世纪这种局面出现了翻天覆地的变化。题外话：日本现在的围棋水平已经沦落为老三了，甚至台湾的围棋水平也已接近日本，日本快要变成老四了。 作者: yannanchen 时间: 2012-5-19 22:10 in the form of the oft-illustrated story of the woodcutter 这个樵夫的故事， 经常以画配文的形式出现 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-19 22:33 本帖最后由 dqzxf 于 2012-5-20 06:25 编辑 第九段 1、That has changed. The past century has been the most dramatic in go history. 原译：但是这些都变了。过去的一个世纪可以说是围棋历史上最戏剧化的一百年。 改译：这种状况已经彻底改变了。过去的一个世纪可以说是围棋史上变化最为剧烈的时期。 2、Once word of the boy''''''''s skill had reached Japan, invitations were soon forthcoming. By the time he was 19, Mr Wu was beating Japan''''''''s top players. 原译：关于他高超棋艺的舆论一到达日本，邀请函便接踵而至。当他19岁的时候，吴清源已经打败了日本的顶尖棋手。 改译：当这个男孩棋艺高超的传言到达日本后，邀请他赴日的函件纷至沓来。吴清源十九岁的时候，就开始降服日本的顶尖棋手。 3、Having eliminated all rivals, he won the honour in 1933 of battling the tenth reigning Meijin, Honinbo Shusai, 21st in the line of masters of the great Honinbo school. 原译：1933年，在淘汰了所有对手之后，吴清源得到了机会挑战第十任卫冕名人、在本因坊道场名列第二十一的大师，本因坊秀哉。 改译：1933年，在淘汰了所有对手之后，吴清源得到了挑战二十一世本因坊，日本的第十位名人——秀哉的荣誉。 解释：当时的名人是终身制，不是现在这样的冠军称号，不用卫冕。而且名人必须是当代最强棋手，如果没有最强棋手出现，名人位可以空缺。所以名人只有第几位，而没有第几任。二十一世本因坊，即本因坊一门的第21任掌门。 作者: yannanchen 时间: 2012-5-19 23:05 Four great go schools, all sponsored by the state, were established during the 17th century, as was the ranking system for players that is still used today and the supreme position of Meijin, or go-master to the shogun himself go-master 是Meijin的同位语。 as was the ranking system for players that is still used today and the supreme position of Meijin, or go-master to the shogun himself = the ranking system was established for players that is still used today, and the supreme position of Meijin, or the supreme position of go-master was established to the shogun himself. 作者: yannanchen 时间: 2012-5-19 23:07 professionalisation 专业化，职业化？？ 作者: yannanchen 时间: 2012-5-19 23:47 such players felt obliged to handicap themselves by granting native opponents large advantages. 悬殊的实力差距使他们认为自己有义务为对方让子 评论： 原句的意思是（实力差距使）他们觉得不得不为对手让多子 让多子隐含了差距悬殊， 但是反过来， 差距悬殊不一定肯让多子。 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-20 07:20 本帖最后由 dqzxf 于 2012-5-27 21:37 编辑 第十段: 1、Mr Wu''''''''s opening, a sharp, direct lunge for territory, was seen as shocking, even insulting, to his elder. 原译：比吴清源还年长的棋手对他尖锐直接而充满攻击性的开局感到十分震惊，甚至被侮辱。 试译：吴清源在这盘对弈中采用的布局非常大胆，完全放弃了守地的布局理论，引起了轩然大波。人们甚至认为这是对比他年长的名人的不敬。 解释：吴清源在这盘棋中采用的是星、三3、天元布局，奇想天外，古今未见。我曾用这盘对局的棋谱做过论坛中的头像。 2、The ailing Meijin eventually carried the match, but only just, and after shamelessly exploiting his rank to postpone play 13 times, over three months. 原译：境况不佳的名人最终撑过了比赛，但却是在他利用地位之便无耻的在三个月内推迟比赛13次的情况下。 改译：拖着病体的名人最终赢了这盘棋。但他充分利用了自己名人上手的地位，对弈期间共打挂13次，将这一盘对局拖延了3个月才下完，赢得很不光彩。 解释：按照日本传统，对弈中上手在局面难解时可以宣布打挂，也就是暂停。然后回去慢慢研究。想好了再通知下手方继续对弈。 3、It was even rumoured that his brilliant, tide-turning 160th move had been devised, in breach of strict rules, by one of the Honinbo disciples. 原译：甚至有传言，他出色而逆转全局的第160步是本因坊的一个弟子帮他想出来的，而这时完全冒犯了严苛的围棋规则。 改译：甚至有传言说，逆转了局面的第160步妙手是一个坊门弟子帮他想出来的，这违反了严格的对局规则。 题外话：这个传言也曾引起过轩然大波。吴清源的师傅濑越宪作一次对记者透露了这个说法，遭到了坊门弟子的猛烈攻击，被迫辞去日本棋院理事长的职位。吴清源也因而脱离了日本棋院。 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-20 08:09 本帖最后由 dqzxf 于 2012-5-20 08:14 编辑 第十一段 1、Five years later, Shusai was unseated by a friend of Mr Wu''''''''s, in another excruciatingly long match that was to become the subject of an allegorical novel about the decline of old Japan by Yasunari Kawabata, who won the 1968 Nobel prize for literature. 原译：五年之后，秀哉的位置在另一个痛苦漫长的比赛上被吴清源的朋友取代。这次比赛还成为了1968年诺贝尔文学奖获得者川端康成创造的一部关于旧日本衰退的比喻小说的主要部分。 改译：五年后，在另一盘痛苦而漫长的对弈中，秀哉终于被吴清源的一位朋友所击败。1968年获得诺贝尔文学奖获的川端康成还以这盘对局为背景写了一本小说。川端康成在这部小说中以此暗喻了旧日本的衰败。 解释：吴的这位朋友叫木谷实，与吴共同开创了新布局。川端康成的这部小说叫《名人》。 2、Soon after, Mr Wu beat his friend and, over the next 20 years, until he was injured by a motorcycle while crossing a Tokyo street, the Chinese prodigy proceeded to crush every one of Japan''''''''s top professionals in an unbroken sequence of victorious ten-game super-matches, known as juban-go. 原译：不久之后，吴清源打败了他的朋友。因此在他穿过东京一条马路时被摩托车撞伤之前的二十年，这个来自中国的神童成功的打败了每一个向他挑战十番棋（连下十盘决胜负的超级比赛）的日本专业棋手。 改译：不久之后，吴清源就打败了他的这个朋友。在其后的二十年间，这位中国神童在一项连续下十盘棋的超级比赛中取得了辉煌的胜利，依次击垮了所有日本顶尖高手。这项比赛被称作擂争十番棋。一次，吴清源在东京穿越马路时被一辆摩托车撞伤，这种局面才告终止。 解释：吴清源擂争十番棋的第一个对手就是木谷实。擂争十番棋中如果一方落后了四局，就要被降棋份。也就是今后两人只要下棋就必须让先或让子了，两人永远也不能平起平坐了。因此这项比赛非常残酷，被称为悬崖边的决斗。 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-20 12:46 dqzxf 发表于 2012-5-20 08:09 太感谢！！ 想请教一下那个often-illustrated翻译成配图会不会怪怪的？ 其实我自己并不会下围棋所以，，， 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-20 12:47 英年早肥 发表于 2012-5-19 16:43 非常感谢！！！ 那句“仍然”在still中没有体现吗？那应该如何译呢？ 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-20 13:49 litoeknee 发表于 2012-5-20 12:46 我就是想问为什么要突然冒出这句话，，不会很奇怪吗 作者: dqzxf 时间: 2012-5-20 15:24 本帖最后由 dqzxf 于 2012-5-20 15:33 编辑 litoeknee 发表于 2012-5-20 13:49 我想作者在这里是想强调这个故事非常流行，不仅有多个版本，而且还都配有插图，妇孺皆知。 [attach]45790[/attach] 清朝的烂柯图 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-20 18:36 dqzxf 发表于 2012-5-20 15:24 是这样！明白了！ 作者: 英年早肥 时间: 2012-5-27 20:20 litoeknee 发表于 2012-5-20 12:47 哈哈，手机上突然到still这儿换行了，没看到，不好意思。。。 作者: litoeknee 时间: 2012-5-29 13:43 英年早肥 发表于 2012-5-27 20:20 作者: yijianlongyue 时间: 2012-5-29 15:49 围棋与哲学，宗教，修养，这些是名人雅士们谈论不休的话题 作者: 插一嘴 时间: 2012-5-29 23:07 我来晚了，看到围棋，大嘴还是忍不住要插一嘴 看得出楼主做足了功课，大嘴甚为佩服 THE heavyweight pros on late-night cable television boast nicknames such as Monster, Razor, Butcher, Assassin and Knitting Needle. The most famed matches in history include the Blood Vomiting Game of 1835, the Famous Killing Game of 1926 and the Atomic Bomb Game of 1945. No, this is not some bone-crushing contact sport. It is a simple parlour game where two opponents, comfortably seated and often equipped with nothing more than folding paper fans and cigarettes, take turns placing little stones, some black, some white, on a flat wooden grid. Simple regarding rules and gear, that is, yet so challenging that in this mind-game, unlike chess, and despite the long-standing offer of a $1.6m reward for a winning program, no computer has yet been able to outwit a clever ten-year-old. heavyweight pros：单翻译成职业高手感觉不够劲，翻译成“顶级职业高手”怎样？ Monster：也许是王铭琬（怪腕） Knitting Needle：也许是小林觉（绵里针） unlike chess：注意这个是管全句的，也就是说围棋和象棋在两个方面不同，首先是规则简单但仍富于挑战性，然后是计算机。。。，为照顾中文的习惯，翻译出来是要把这个“与象棋不同”放到句首。 The game known in English as go—Igo in Japanese, Weiqi in Chinese, Baduk in Korean—is not just more difficult and subtle than chess. It may also be the world''''''''s oldest surviving game of pure mental skill. Devised in China at least 2,500 years ago, it had stirred enough interest by the time of the Han dynasty (206BC-220AD) to inspire poets, philosophers and strategic theorists. One of these strategists, Huan Tan (who died in 56AD), advises in his work “Xin Lun”, or “New Treatise”, that the best approach in the game is to “spread your pieces widely so as to encircle the opponent.” Second best is to attack and choke off enemy formations. The worst strategy is to cling to a defence of your own territory—a warning that would have benefited, say, the designers of France''''''''s 1930s Maginot line. spread your pieces widely so as to encircle the opponent：这里的意思是要把子力扩展开，以包围对方的棋子。 choke off enemy formations：打乱敌方的阵型。 还有，我认为这里的“上者、中者和下者”指的是“上策、中策和下策” 感觉作者并没有吃透《新论》的本意，呵呵，国学真是博大精深啊 Tang-dynasty fashion ranked proficiency at go as one of the “four accomplishments” necessary for a cultivated gentleman, along with lute-playing, calligraphy and painting. It was during this era that the passion for go, like so much of the high culture of metropolitan China, made its way to such outlying kingdoms as Korea, Tibet and, most infectiously, Japan. Go was all the rage in Japanese courtly circles by the 11th century, as is known from its appearance in Lady Murasaki''''''''s great novel of the time, “The Tale of Genji”, in the famous—and again often-illustrated—scene where Prince Genji spies through a screen on two ladies playing the game. 围棋在日本皇室风行一时不假，但是否是皇室中最盛行的游戏就值得商榷了，原文中没有提到这一点。据我所知，日本将棋一直比围棋更为流行。 As in China, go in Japan remained for centuries a mere aristocratic pastime, until a sudden flowering under the shoguns of the Edo period (1603-1867). Many of the great warlords of that age being themselves aficionados—in the belief that go provided excellent training for military tactics and strategy—it was not surprising that patronage of the game should have flourished. Four great go schools, all sponsored by the state, were established during the 17th century, as was the ranking system for players that is still used today and the supreme position of Meijin, or go-master to the shogun himself. Meijin Dosaku (who died in 1702), the fourth head of the Honinbo go school, is held by many Japanese to have been the game''''''''s greatest player. Although records of only 153 of his matches are preserved, he is said to have achieved the biggest advances in theory since the invention of go. the ranking system ：严格说是“段位制度” Mr Wu''''''''s opening, a sharp, direct lunge for territory, was seen as shocking, even insulting, to his elder. The ailing Meijin eventually carried the match, but only just, and after shamelessly exploiting his rank to postpone play 13 times, over three months. It was even rumoured that his brilliant, tide-turning 160th move had been devised, in breach of strict rules, by one of the Honinbo disciples. a sharp, direct lunge for territory：锐利、露骨地抢占实地（这里说的就是那个著名的三三、星位、天元之局，最让秀哉恼火的是这个三三，它露骨地抢占实地，是本因坊的禁招） Five years later, Shusai was unseated by a friend of Mr Wu''''''''s, in another excruciatingly long match that was to become the subject of an allegorical novel about the decline of old Japan by Yasunari Kawabata, who won the 1968 Nobel prize for literature. Soon after, Mr Wu beat his friend and, over the next 20 years, until he was injured by a motorcycle while crossing a Tokyo street, the Chinese prodigy proceeded to crush every one of Japan''''''''s top professionals in an unbroken sequence of victorious ten-game super-matches, known as juban-go. 这里指的是秀哉引退棋，对手是木谷实，比赛首次采用封手制，木谷实最终赢得了这场旷日持久的比赛。木谷并没有取代秀哉，所以这里的was unseated应该翻译成“被击败”。 Mr Wu''''''''s game declined after his accident, and he retired from professional play in 1983. Still, at 90 years of age, he has had the pleasure of seeing his own countrymen re-emerge as serious challengers for global ascendance. During the Cultural Revolution, go was demoted from its place among the “four accomplishments” to become one of the four, discarded, “rotten pasts”. Yet in the 1970s a few Chinese players, among them Nie Weiping, who had spent years on a pig farm in internal exile, managed to chalk up individual successes against Japanese opponents. In the 1980s the Chinese began to score team wins with growing frequency, until in 1996 the Japanese cancelled a series of bilateral contests because the results had grown embarrassing. Mr Wu''''''''s game declined after his accident：这里是说他的棋艺退化了（连遭惨败）。 global ascendance：这里指的是围棋世界冠军吧（世界围棋执牛耳者） managed to chalk up individual successes against Japanese opponents：这个不是“想要”，而是设法战胜了个别的日本职业棋手。 In the 1980s the Chinese began to score team wins with growing frequency, until in 1996 the Japanese cancelled a series of bilateral contests because the results had grown embarrassing：这里谈的是始于1984年的中日围棋擂台赛，造就了聂卫平神话，后因常昊的辣手而终止。 Significantly, the only two women to reach the rank of nine-dan, roughly equivalent to grand master in chess, are Chinese, and both have emerged within the past 15 years. One of them, Rui Naiwei, is among the world''''''''s top 15 players. In 2000 the Iron Lady, as Ms Rui is often called, trounced the world''''''''s two top-seeded male players, one after the other in a single tournament. the world''''''''s two top-seeded male players：两位世界顶级的男棋手（指曹李师徒） The new phenomenon in go is the meteoric rise of South Korea, a country long regarded by its neighbours as a backwater. The first Korean to be noticed internationally was Cho Chik-un. Moving to Japan as a child, he went professional in 1967 at the age of 11. By the time he was 27, Mr Cho held all four top Japanese titles at once. Mr Cho still earns more than any other go player in Japan and, say some, ranks fifth in the world in skill. say some：据有些人说（其实这里多少言过其实，2004年的时候日本围棋早已是日薄西山） Yet Mr Cho''''''''s record pales in comparison with South Korea''''''''s own Cho Hoon-hyun, currently the world number three. Preferring to stay in his native land, this Mr Cho won a record 16 consecutive Paewan titles, one of South Korea''''''''s swankiest, before losing, in 1992, to his own pupil, the current world champion, Lee Chang-ho. Mr Lee, whose legion of Korean fans call him the Stone Buddha, has the distinction of concurrently holding five out of the seven main international men''''''''s titles. He is thought to earn nearly $1m a year. the seven main international men''''''''s titles：世界七大棋战的头衔。 Korea is go-mad. With less than half Japan''''''''s population, it has almost three times as many active players. Go schools and clubs clog the halls of apartment buildings in Seoul, a city that supports two full-time go channels on cable television. No surprise, then, that Koreans have taken 41 out of the 54 international cups won since worldwide tournaments, rather than just national ones, were first launched in 1988. That compares with ten for Japan and three for China. worldwide tournaments：这个翻译成世界大赛为妥，因为比赛远不止一个。 作者: 麦克飞 时间: 2012-6-21 14:10 当一场运动关乎国家荣誉，或者是成为一项全民性的运动时，这项运动的发展就指日可待了。 作者: Aurora0903 时间: 2012-9-13 16:58 围棋一直想学的东东哇~~~~~ 作者: 寒风·田野 时间: 2012-9-24 21:32 灰常给力啊！作者: 小生_章 时间: 2012-10-6 12:54 ailing 有处境困难之意，我度娘了一下，本因坊秀哉并没有拖着病体，应改为处境被动的秀哉 In the 1980s 译为 1980年时 应该错了，译为 20世纪80年代 或许更好一些吧 这有望成为一场极其激烈的冲突改为 这有望成为一场极其激烈的对决 更好一些 个人意见，仅供参考 作者: crazybull 时间: 2012-11-2 16:56 I myself is a amateur player. 1) 编出能够打败（职业棋手）的计算机程序... 开篇的描写很容易会让人联想起职业摔跤。（职业棋手）过早被抛出来，会使后面的包袱索然无味，建议去掉。读者看到下文自然能明白。 2） the best approach in the game is to “spread your pieces widely so as to encircle the opponent.” Second best is to attack and choke off enemy formations. The worst strategy is to cling to a defence of your own territory... 这游戏里的上策是“高者在腹”；中策是攻城拔寨；下策是消极防守。 亦即孙子兵法的上兵伐谋...鄙人认为没必要逐字翻译。（古汉语翻译成英文也嚼不出原味了，如同欧美的中餐。） 3） handle of his axe had rotted entirely away. 烂柯。 围棋有很多别名和典故。烂柯、乌鹭、木野狐... 4）pitting Prince Sun Ce against his general, Lu Fan, and showing ... 此乃“孙策诏吕范弈棋”。译文中的“陛下”应为“麾下”。 5）By the time he was 27, Mr Cho held all four top Japanese titles at once 赵治勋27岁那年，同时拥有了日本围棋“四大冠”---棋圣、名人、本因坊、王座。 6） Korea is go-mad 韩国举国棋痴。（是不是好些？尤其联系到下文。） 这篇文章写成应该是比较早了。如今中国职业围棋水平已经超过了日本，足以和韩国抗衡。 今天，中国流的创造者，中国棋院院院长陈祖德先生离世。陈老，一路走好！ 作者: zhliutao 时间: 2012-11-17 13:03 好文章，记得以前看过吴清源的电影。 作者: vincentchi 时间: 2012-11-25 19:45 讲述了围棋的历史~~~~收益~~~ 作者: QQ_90A24E 时间: 2012-12-5 14:32 Blacklights: 学过一点点围棋，不过不是大师直译起来有点麻烦。。。一流棋手以大模样布局，呈合围的势态，以对全局的掌控获得胜利。中等棋手则致力于阻拦或切断对方重要的棋子 ... 上者,远其疏张,置以会围;中者,则务相绝遮要,以争便求利;下者,则守边隅 最高超的（棋法），从（棋势）的长远发展态势布局，选择落子稀疏、或者紧密等不同的战术，静待时机出现，即可围歼对方。（棋法：心中无敌，胸中无我，大处着眼，遵道行之） 中庸的（棋法），用针锋相对的态度，与对手争夺棋盘战术要害，来获取战术上的便利和一时的利益，（棋法：心中有敌，胸中无我；只争眼前，无论长远） 与前者相比最不高明的的（下着）：毫无进取之心，一味防守退缩，坚壁清野，等待对方自己出错。 （棋法:未战先怯，不战而栗，固守退缩，待敌之过） 作者: WANGZHCH 时间: 2014-4-13 17:58 本帖最后由 WANGZHCH 于 2014-4-13 18:02 编辑 学习 |
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